Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Bangsaphan general discussion and questions.
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Mr Chin Chok
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by Mr Chin Chok » 30 Jan 2014 02:54

Felix Qui has one, in my view, excellent response to that article:

https://id.theguardian.com/profile/id/1 ... ream=picks

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yoursTruly
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by yoursTruly » 31 Jan 2014 10:31

Mr Chin Chok wrote:Felix Qui has one, in my view, excellent response to that article:

https://id.theguardian.com/profile/id/1 ... ream=picks
Well, bribing for votes (and appearing on TV doing it--there's a famous Youtube video of Thaksin offering bribes for any and all if they'll vote for him) isn't the soul of democratic voting. If a democracy is no more than a sham, it's probably worse that no democracy at all because the only purpose the voters serve in such a situation is that of validating a fraud, rubber stamping their exploitation.

If the democracy can be salvaged somehow, if it's not so totally corrupted that it can't be reformed, then it should be kept. In some cases the grip of the powerful is so all consuming that there's no hope to save it, and it has to be overthrown (and violently--the powerful won't leave on their own) so that something better can replace it.

Thailand had military rule for many years and staged a bloody revolution in the '70s to get a democracy, so it's sad to see Thais (at least these protesters) acknowledging that their attempts for democracy have failed, have elected tyrants like Thaksin. It's also sad to see them pushing another rich swindler into power (Suthep) to "save them".

Time for a Red-Yellow shirt joint government. Kick everyone who owns a Mercedes out of government on general principles, and start fresh.
"Don't take life too serious. It ain't no ways permanent."
-- Pogo, by Walt Kelly

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buksida
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by buksida » 31 Jan 2014 11:16

The only way to salvage democracy in Thailand is to eliminate all of the corrupt politicians (on both sides) from politics and start fresh with a brand new, non-colour coded, party that has the entire country's needs in its interests (not just the ones it can buy off at election time).

Mike Parker
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by Mike Parker » 31 Jan 2014 15:02

Nice and sensible solution but if we look at the history books, in many countries, the only way the mega rich,powerful and corrupt have been vanquished is at the point of a gun.Its not in their DNA to give up what they control.

We can only hope that it doesn't come to that but the odds are shortening.

Santi-C
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by Santi-C » 31 Jan 2014 19:20

Some non-exhaustive definitions of an“Elite”:

Larousse (ancient version) =
“Ce qu'il y a de meilleur, de plus distingué.” (the best, the most distinguished).

Concise Oxford Dictionary (1976 ed.) =
“(1) The choice part, the best (of a group); select group or class, (2) hence advocacy of or reliance on leadership or dominance of a select group.”

Wikipedia (current) =
“A small group of people who control a disproportionate amount of wealth or political power.”

Santi-C (to-day!) =
“A member of the category of privileged people, frequently observed as possessing the attributes of narcissistic perverts.”

Take your pick …

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buksida
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by buksida » 01 Feb 2014 10:07

The wiki version is exactly how I would describe the family that half the country want to vote for.

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yoursTruly
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by yoursTruly » 01 Feb 2014 11:31

buksida wrote:The wiki version is exactly how I would describe the family that half the country want to vote for.
It's a bit tragic that half the country want to vote for the Thaksin clan, but that's the way it is in the US too (people voting against their own best interests). To paraphrase Abe Lincoln:

"It's depressingly easy to fool most of the people most of the time."

These see-saw battles every few years are doing quite a bit of long term harm to Thailand, rich and poor alike. Foreign investment is slacking off, good civil servants are leaving government, and Thailand is too distracted to take economic advantage of emerging markets for Thai goods in places like Myanmar.

This article details some of that:

http://blogs.cfr.org/asia/2014/01/31/dr ... the-world/
"Don't take life too serious. It ain't no ways permanent."
-- Pogo, by Walt Kelly

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yoursTruly
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by yoursTruly » 01 Feb 2014 12:18

buksida wrote:The only way to salvage democracy in Thailand is to eliminate all of the corrupt politicians (on both sides) from politics and start fresh with a brand new, non-colour coded, party that has the entire country's needs in its interests (not just the ones it can buy off at election time).
The hard part is finding the path from here to there. The biggest obstacles will always be concentrations of power, whether it's the Army, the economic elite (to give you my idea of the size of an elite: in the US, about 400 families run the show), or even the royalty. By their exclusive nature, these "elite" will always be out of touch with most of the people, and because of their wealth and power, think themselves morally and intellectually superior to everyone else, giving them arrogance and cruelty. In their eyes, we are "sub human", not worthy (or even capable) to control our own destinies. (The elite's contempt of democracy and the general public is evident in documents such as the Wikileaks cables)

Democratic governments have traditionally been the remedy for abuses of concentrated power,, but are subject to corruption and "capture" by the powerful. Still, democracy is the only path I can see to the ideal state you describe. I don't think a Wise King will appear and lead us all to Utopia.

I realize that the majority of Thais still want some form of democracy, but they're new at the game. They're still rather feudalistic in their thinking. Good things come by good connections, family alliances, backroom bargains, knowing the right person in the military, police, or judiciary, bribes paid to the right people. It's a stretch from that kind of thinking to "we're all in this together", "all for one, one for all". They've got a long haul, and a lot of pain to endure to get where they want to go.
"Don't take life too serious. It ain't no ways permanent."
-- Pogo, by Walt Kelly

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buksida
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by buksida » 02 Feb 2014 09:12

This article offers a few possible scenarios in the wake of today's failed election:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_ ... 00114.html

None of them are pretty.

Mike Parker
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by Mike Parker » 02 Feb 2014 12:13

At 12 noon voting in the north,Chiang Mai ,seems very low key,appears to be a poor turn out. My wife refuses to vote and same with many of her friends here in our village. As we are in red shirt territory they are keeping quiet about their non participation.

The whole election could be invalid and a total waste of money and not solve anything,but I think we all knew that.

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yoursTruly
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by yoursTruly » 03 Feb 2014 10:42

Nothing says "revolt" like "Revolutionary Ice Cream"
(translated: "I-sah-cram")

Image
"Don't take life too serious. It ain't no ways permanent."
-- Pogo, by Walt Kelly

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yoursTruly
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by yoursTruly » 03 Feb 2014 11:01

Typical drivel from the New York Times about the election yesterday.

Furious Bangkok residents filed complaints at police stations while protesters nearby, many of them looking threatening with military-style clothing and covered faces, blocked access to roads near polling places.

“This is the dark ages,” said Wantanee Suthachiva, a businesswoman who was turned away from her polling place.
........
The Times always supports the elite in America, so why not here. They frequently lie to support rich people's agenda like the Iraqi war, as when they presented a story that tied Iraq to nuclear weapons dealers in Nigeria. (the idea that Iraq was getting nuclear weapons from Nigeria). Their source turned out to be a McDonald's fry cook who had been persuaded to "cook up" the story by the CIA. (A complete lie: the CIA had offered him money to do some "spying" on his own, and never checked his story). The CIA handed over the "intelligence" to the NYT, and the Times printed it as gospel on page 1. Two years after the invasion and deep into a murderous and hideously expensive war, the NYT, way in the back pages of the paper, acknowledged that they "should have done a bit more to corroborate the story". Many similar examples.

It's a typical reaction by Western media to the Thai revolt. "Democracy is sacred.", and what's more "Business (ie Capitalism) is sacred". No matter how undemocratic the democracy or how corrupt the business.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/03/world ... twrhp&_r=2
"Don't take life too serious. It ain't no ways permanent."
-- Pogo, by Walt Kelly

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yoursTruly
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by yoursTruly » 03 Feb 2014 14:59

Image

(give the fish names: for example "Thaksin", "Red Shirt", "Yellow Shirt", "New York Times", "Barack O-Bombya")
"Don't take life too serious. It ain't no ways permanent."
-- Pogo, by Walt Kelly

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buksida
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by buksida » 04 Feb 2014 13:16

Yes, the western media really have no idea what is going on here and why.

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yoursTruly
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Re: Bangkok protests: updates and photos

Post by yoursTruly » 04 Feb 2014 18:08

1,000 Rice Farmers Cut Off Highways Near Bangkok

http://www.chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=3148
"Don't take life too serious. It ain't no ways permanent."
-- Pogo, by Walt Kelly

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